An Interview with Amber Julian and George “WuKong” Cheng from the Bay Area’s Legendary Embodiment Project

tumay aslay May 6, 2020

By Polina Smith

Embodiment Project is a San Francisco-based street dance theater company that “intersects hip hop, documentary theater, live song and choreo-poetry to illuminate narratives silenced by inequities and inspire critical conversations and healing.” But what happens when a thriving performing arts season suddenly comes to a halt? How do you pivot to using video conferencing and social media to communicate what is at your dance company’s very core? It has been challenging, make no mistake, but like with their art, Embodiment Project is handling it with resilience, creativity and grit. I caught up with dance company members Amber Julian and George “WuKong” Cheng to get their thoughts on the current situation for artists and what role art can play during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Embodiment Project company members Dre Devis, Amber Julian, Nicole Klaymoon, Keisha Turner, Sammay Dizon, courtesy of Yerba Buena Center for the Arts.

Polina: What was Embodiment Project (EP) up to before the virus hit?

George: I think it was literally the night before the Bay Area called shelter-in-place, Amber, myself and Nicole were all together and EP was supposed to go to Akron, Ohio, for a one-week residency. We were in the lab working on our Yerba Buena Center for the Arts premiere of X RATED PLANET. We were pretty busy gearing up for that and in a really heavy rehearsal flow.

Amber, myself, and Poko teach at ODC in San Francisco. We work with the youth hip hop company, and we were also gearing up for their end of the year performances. So, we definitely had a good amount of things going on. Then overnight everything just changed.

Polina: I am curious what’s happening with the new show. Do you have a date rescheduled, are you waiting to see when it all ends or how it plays out?

Amber: It’s been postponed, which is good that it’s not completely cancelled. I think it’s just a matter of scheduling and seeing if everyone else is available and really how long this shelter is going to be happening. It’s supposed to be happening hopefully at some point either late summer or fall probably.

Polina: How else are you adjusting and adapting to this time?

Amber: It is very jarring for artists who’s crafts are so built on and around community. We are dancing at home and stay physically active however and whenever possible.

Embodiment Project company members Amber Julian and Keisha Turner. Photo by Alexa Treviño, courtesy of Yerba Buena Center for the Arts.

Polina: Are you rehearsing for the new show? What does an EP rehearsal over Zoom look like?

George: We are meeting once a week, and we see it really as a time to figure out what we can continue doing, what we can continue creating, and how we can apply our creativity to what’s going on right now and adapt in those ways. It could be rehearsing lines or just coming up with what our youth program will look like moving forward.

It’s a lot of behind-the-scenes type of work compared to what we normally do - being on the stage and things like that. Some folks in the company are still teaching once a week via online classes.

Polina: Is developing the youth portion of EP something you are putting more attention into now because you have this extra time, or was that always in the works at this level?

Amber: We are trying to see what’s possible with it now that it’s online, but outside of that there have been talks about how we can expand that program. I do anticipate that once things lift, it will probably be expanded in some ways.

Polina: I am curious if you could talk about the biggest challenges - as individual artists and as a company - that you are facing at this time?

Amber: The community aspect is very challenging. I think in some ways I have gotten closer to some community folks, conversing more, reaching out more, and connecting in that way. As far as going to events or battle and taking classes, it’s come to a screeching halt.

Having that structure of meeting 3 days a week and rehearsing 3 days a week. To not have that structure - there are pluses and minuses to that. It allows our bodies to rest a little bit more. It allows us to be creative and find our own ways of navigating structure and being consistent with movement as that is our passion.

George: I think some of the more obvious challenges are the income. Amber has already taught an online class with our youth company. Some other folks in the company have also done work online. Dance is a communally driven spirit - when you are with people face-to-face it really is a whole other type of experience.

Polina: What is the fundraising campaign you are doing?

Amber: We were getting paid for rehearsals, so that is a big financial hit. The youth program got cut significantly, so a lot of the things we anticipated financially, energetically, and emotionally have all slowed down or stopped.

Our campaign is to help us financially in those ways. We also work with collaborators who are going to be in the show. We had our Ohio Tech residency that got cancelled, which would have been a significant financial help.

Polina: What do you think the role of art and the artist is in this time?

George: It’s interesting to see how art is really a reflection of the times, and really to remind people what’s going on. It’s helping us to connect, to be human and feel our emotions - especially at a time like this when there can be so many mixed emotions.

It can really help us to find our equilibrium within ourselves - that grounded place. It helps us really be able to acknowledge what might be going on outside or what is alive inside of us, and to be able to keep moving forward.

The really important thing is to help us maintain our humanity at this time when there is so much going on. At the same time I also think that art can really serve as our meaning to be that stand of resilience and celebration.

We need to be able to tap into that creative spirit and let that energize ourselves and be filled with joy at times - even though society as a whole is really going through it right now. And just remembering to share that joy as well through art.

Amber: I think about my mom, because she always told me it’s so important to have a passion. I really feel that is so essential right now - to have something to look forward to that gives you life and sparks that fire in you. It helps to have art as an outlet and to look forward to doing something that makes you feel good. To have that outlet is like medicine.

Embodiment Project Company Member George "WuKong" Cheng, photo by Alexa Treviño. Courtesy of Yerba Buena Center for the Arts.

Polina: During this time your role is to make a way out of no way. Art has such potential. What do you think, is the virus here to teach us something? What can we learn from it? Do you hold a spiritual perspective on this time?

George: It’s definitely the physical, the spiritual, the mental, and the emotional. Those are all connected. For those of us that have time and space to even be able to think about these things, because there are a lot of people who don’t have that space and that opportunity right now, this is really a good time to think about what is important and what’s not working in our system.

Thinking about things like that and the planet and nature. We are seeing all these animals come back, pollution is clearing, and you can see stars in the sky. I think that is a very total and obvious result of everything being put on pause. I definitely think that it is a really good opportunity for us to reflect on what's working and what’s not. How do we want to move forward coming out of all of this?

Amber: Just having this extra spaciousness in time has really allowed more space to go introspective a little bit more. It’s like all the things are coming up because there is so much time, and my mind has so much more space that I can actually dive deeper into things. That’s definitely a thing.

Also I’m really counting my blessings. We’re just very blessed to have a roof over our heads, food, and music in our lives and to have able bodies to still dance. I’m holding a lot of compassion for those who may not have that access at this moment.

I actually have a lot of relatives and friends that are working in the medical industry, and they are on different lines. I am holding a lot of love and tenderness for them and wanting to take back responsibility personally to really do the sheltering and stay home. I want to be responsible in those ways, and to really hold those that are a little more at risk in our hearts and minds.

Polina: What gives you hope during this time?

George: Acknowledging that it’s such a difficult situation for a lot of people right now, and at the same time this type of situation can really bring out the best and the worst of people, so to speak. In terms of the acts of kindness and the way people are supporting one another, I think it is a touching thing to see.

Mentioning looking to those elders and spiritual figures and communities all around, and just listening to what they have to say. And art - art gives me hope. My community. One thing is definitely seeing social media and the type of discussions happening and the amount of people that are acknowledging that some things are really not working anymore. It just feels like there is so much potential and momentum around people wanting something different. I think that’s one of the big things for me personally.

Amber: I do feel closer to a lot of folks at the same time. I am reconnecting with friends I haven’t spoken to so often and just making it a point to reach out to people more and check in with people. That in itself is a reminder that we are all in it together and that we are all around the globe in this together.

Also, nature. Seeing all these birds that I haven’t seen before. It’s so beautiful. The flowers are blooming. Those things make me feel really hopeful. Life is happening and these beautiful things are going to bloom from this.

Polina: As a last question, I am wondering what message you would give to artists, especially to young artists, right now.

Amber: My message is just to remind them that we are all in this together, we are all learning. I don’t want to say, “Keep creating, keep dancing.” Some people might not be in that space, but I will say that art is so very healing. I know that it has saved my life many times. If there is any tiny bit of hope towards that, I’d say to really take that seed, to nurture it, and to see it grow.

Whatever art can do for you - if you are feeling that spark, follow that spark. It doesn’t have to look like anybody else’s ways of doing it, but to know that it is always there, it’s always accessible in any way.

George: Even if you are having challenges, really try and push through and keep creating from that really raw place within yourself. Whether you want to express that joy and celebration for what you are grateful for, or whether you want to express that grief and that sadness and that anger and despair. Either way, as long as you are creating from that authentic place inside and to be able to share that and be felt. I think that’s the healing process for the individual and for the collective. I think that’s what we really need right now to get us through this time.

Polina: Thank you both so much. May beautiful seeds be planted during this time, even if we don’t know what their fruits are.

Help the Embodiment Project Artists thrive during this time, support their relief fund at http://tinyurl.com/epartistrelief

Embodiment Project is a San Francisco-based street dance theater company that intersects hip hop, documentary theater, live song and choreo-poetry to illuminate narratives silenced by inequities and inspire critical conversations and healing.

Help support Embodiment Project artists during this time: http://tinyurl.com/epartistrelief

Polina Smith is the Executive Director of Crescent Moon Theater Productions creating original, thought provoking new work that spans across the disciplines of theater, dance, music and circus. She holds a Master of Fine Arts in Creative Inquiry from the California Institute of Integral Studies. Smith is an art event producer for Bioneers and Seismic Sisters.

An Interview with Rhodessa Jones on the Role of Art and the Artist during the COVID-19 Pandemic

tumay aslay April 8, 2020

By Polina Smith

Rhodessa Jones is a legendary artist and activist based in the San Francisco Bay Area with a focus on theater and social justice work. Jones serves as co-artistic director of Cultural Odyssey and director of The Medea Project: Theater for Incarcerated Women, an award-winning theater company committed to women’s personal and social transformation. As a United States Artists Fellowship recipient, she expanded her work into jails and institutions around the nation and internationally. Jones has engaged with academic institutions through teaching residencies at Brown University, Scripps College Humanities Institute, and Dartmouth College. Rhodessa Jones is a vibrant and influential force for social progress through art.

Rhodessa Jones at the African American Art & Culture Complex in San Francisco. Photo by Tumay Aslay

In the following interview, Polina Smith, who worked closely with The Medea Project for nine years, speaks with Rhodessa Jones to get her thoughts and insight on the role of art and the artist during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Polina Smith: What was The Medea Project doing before the ‘shelter-in-place’ order went into effect?

Rhodessa Jones: Well, we had just come back from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. We had been invited by the Classical Literature Department to do a performance. It was very powerful! More and more we’ve been invited by classics departments to present at universities as they grapple with the questions: how do we make the classics relevant, how do they matter in the modern day?

The Medea Project has always worked with the classics, starting with the name. I knew the myth of Medea when I started working in the jails and I met a woman who had killed her baby. She had a big fight with her husband who wanted out. She was just getting addicted to crack, she smothered the baby in revenge. She had been a graduate of UC Berkeley. When I met her in jail, she was just ‘on the moon’ and I was trying to figure out who is this woman? She sat in the back in a cage all by herself. It just brought me back to my Medea.

As The Medea Project grew and became prominent, performers in the group started bringing in other stories. Demeter and Persephone was the other story I brought in. It is about a daughter being abducted and the mother having the power to stop the seasons. And so it began that the classics were showing up in the ‘matrilineage’ segment which we do at the end of each show. “I am Rhodessa, call me Persephone.”

I love the idea of the universal story, especially with incarcerated women. How do we bring in a story where everybody feels it? Then as director, my job is to instruct everybody to put yourself at the center of the story; what kind of Medea are you?

‘The Medea Project: Theater for Incarcerated Women’ performing at Blessed Unrest festival in San Francisco. Photo by Thatcher Hayward

How has The Medea Project been adjusting since the ‘shelter-in-place’ went into effect?

We had a wonderful Zoom meeting the other night. We're going to be meeting now on Zoom every Tuesday at six o'clock. It's been really lovely. Everybody was so happy to see everybody. We started to talk about life and dreams. Everybody had a lot of ideas, and we got to laugh and just be together. Everybody checked in and then there were just some crazy conversations that happened!

What do you think is the role of artists during this time?

I think one, we have to be a symbol of hope and light and laughter. We also have to be, as Mister Rogers’ mother always taught him, to be a helper. To go where the people are helping and do something. I think we must keep busy. The artist’s role? I think it's hope, I think it's light, I think it's assurance. And I think that it's making a way out of no way. I think that is what the artist does.

What is your spiritual perspective on this time?

Well, you know, Sekou Sundiata has this wonderful line in one of his poems. He’s talking about racism and the culture, but he says, "In this long reign of the upside-down," and I feel like we're in the upside-down. We're free falling. I was talking to Medea yesterday and it just came out of my heart when I said to them, "You know, I lament the freefall, but I do know where my heart lies," because everybody was writing and everybody was just so supportive of each other, and we all swore to be sisters forever and ever.

On one level, I think it's a good time to be still. I'm really enjoying those other places in my mind and in my heart. You know, lying in bed at night, when I finally turn off the television because in lockdown we are so (do we say blessed?) in this culture that we have stuff to distract us – and here we are on ‘Zoom’ talking - that I think we're gonna work through it, you know? But I don't know. I can't see through the darkness yet.

I call on my mother a lot. I call on my mother to tell me, to help me be still, to help me make sense of it, to help me be a better mother, lover, leader.

What gives you hope during this time?

I'm in lockdown, I'm at my house, it's just me, myself, and I. My nature is to enjoy the life, the light. My nature is not to be a somber dark person, but I try to prepare myself for the fact that we may be colliding. Somewhere somebody might be looking at Earth as this planet that's spiraling towards some great bang. That happens, but then I think, ‘Wow, it's too bad I can't feel the speed of it,’ versus like, ‘Oh God.’

So, I think what gives me hope is the fact that if I die tonight, I've had a good life, I think I've touched people. I still go out and talk to people because I think we must still honor the circle of life. These are traits and habits that I have, that my job, my directive from the goddess is to ‘Go do that.’ That's what happened with me with The Medea Project. She was like, ‘You go, and you do this.’ And I'm like, ‘Do what?’ She said, ‘You go, you're gonna see. You're gonna find out what you have to do.’

Rhodessa Jones opening Blessed Unrest at CounterPulse Theater. Photo by Thatcher Hayward

What would your message be to young artists during this time?

Work! Don't think about the work, just work. Just work and everything will be done in time. The alchemy of artistry, of art-making, has to do with keeping your heart open, keeping your eyes and your ears open. Right now, in the 21st Century, all these artists I know are doing stuff for each other online. Engage. Engage with each other.

Be ready to stand up for people you feel might be getting a bad deal. There's the Poor People's Campaign, you know, with Reverend William Barber. It popped up on my computer yesterday. This huge Poor People’s Campaign is underway because poor people are getting the short end of the stick.

They’re talking about this big deal in Congress, an emergency financial aid package, but if you do service work, if you have no identity in America. . . There’s people who are working their asses off, like my darling Roberto who worked three jobs. He took care of the restaurant, he served the food, but these people will be. . . The same ones that do the toilets, people who sweep up the bus station, where are they? How are they even going to be found?

We need to be stern and ready to take care of each other and to take care of those people who are less fortunate than us. My famous saying is “Politics don't work. Religion is a bit too eclectic, but art can be that parachute that catches us all.” I believe that. I really do.

Thank you so much Rhodessa Jones for chatting with us, we are deeply moved by the inspiration, leadership and vision you bring to so many during these challenging times.

For more information about Rhodessa Jones and The Medea Project: Theater for Incarcerated Women head to their websites. Also see our previous profile of Rhodessa Jones at Seismic Sisters.